Last Saturday I, age 59, was with my 48 year old (female) partner at a large local music and arts festival. At one point during the Festival we were sitting on the grass in front of two "attractive" 17 year old girls (looked like they could have been 15). They were quite enthusiastic and having a good time talking with various people sitting near them. When B went to a porta-potty, one of the young women moved onto our blanket (we were both standing)and began talking to me.
It was quite evident that she was high on something (B later guessed Ecstasy from my description). She kept saying that B and I were wonderful people. She tried to engage me in dancing (loosely) with her. She hugged me and seemingly wanted to hug me a second time.
She seemed to notice my reticence, but it didn't seemed to stop her that much. I told her that if "my wife" saw her with me, she might presume that I was hustling her and might be upset. After several such statements she reiterated how nice we were and went back to her area with her friend.
Her friend briefly talked with me telling me her name and to remember her name (she was purportedly an excellent singer) and asked our names. She was equally friendly and outgoing, but not as "attentive" or "connected".
The two of them then left (before B returned) with two 30-35 year old men that the second girl had invited to join them and sought attention from seemingly to get seats for the Bob Dylan - headliner show together - that was scheduled a little later at the main stage.
Both of these girls were dressed moderately "sexily", though totally appropriately. They were reasonably short, fairly thin, and definitely fit most stereotypes of being "attractive", "young", "cute" or whatever, while not being "stunning" or similar.
The feelings that I felt were a mixture of horror/fear - from the "thinking" side of me - "younger than my oldest child" - "disgusting" etc. and then from the "simple man" ("feeling") side of me - "am I really attractive", "wouldn't it be wonderful some day in the distant, distant future - to have someone much younger touch me and desire me to touch her" and the like.
The latter types of feelings came from the "fantasy" side of part of my maleness and my being.
I could Not imagine ever, ever being in a relationship with a woman younger than my partner - it's tough enough dealing with our age differences after years together. I couldn't imagine having a sexual escapade (presuming I was widowed or similar) with someone faintly (within 20-25 years) close to as young as this young woman at any time during the rest of my life.
I also thought and wondered at the time at the age difference between the men that these girls (and I wouldn't call them "women) went off with, however it seemed like it was none my business.
Experiencing what I did - as an "old man" or at least "older man" - I can only faintly imagine what goes through the heads of many other men - who may be 35 with a 20 year old or 45 with a 25 year old or whatever.
Whether drugs or alcohol are involved or whether it is simply hormones and "middle aged male syndrome" or whatever - it's not difficult for me to imagine many other men making moves or responding to moves (or perceived moves) of women much younger than they are.
I both don't want what I say to excuse - "bad" behavior, nor to be on some high horse related to what others may feel. We obviously choose How we respond to our feelings! Thanks!
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7 comments:
I know you don't mean fantasy in a chilling sort of way, but the word is used so poorly nowadays that all my brain keeps screaming is pervert...I'm so ashamed...I know it's not that way...but it is something personal I still fumble with that has a lot to do with past issues my husband and I had.
You are perceptive in focusing upon my use of the word "fantasy".
You needn't be ashamed of your feelings related to what I expressed.
The "fantasy side" to which I referred is a dark and scary and potentially guilt ridden side of my being.
"all my brain keeps screaming is pervert...I'm so ashamed..."
I think that it is important to confront things within us that Don't Feel "ok" - and of which we are ashamed and even at times scared of.
It seems important to me to confront what is there. If I am silent - through shame, it doesn't mean that the feelings and what affects they may have upon me are gone - burying and hiding things doesn't help.
"I know it's not that way...but it is something personal I still fumble with that has a lot to do with past issues my husband and I had."
IF - your husband is real and authentic - he will have areas that may at times scare you (as well as scare him). While confrontation may be difficult - as you alluded to on your own blog I believe - it important to struggle through such things as both individuals and as couples.
Growing up and being male teaches us a lot of bad habits as well as brainwashing us in some ways. (As a woman you most likely have similar shadow sides of some of these things as well.)
I appreciate your feedback - and sharing of your feelings! While I don't see myself as a "pervert", the feelings you may feel related to my words are valid and important for you in whatever ways you may find them. You do get at a tough/difficult/bad/ scary area of me.
Thanks again!
OK, let me try posting this comment once again and hope it goes through this time. :-)
My sister and I were just talking about this very issue the other day. Ever woman spends a huge part of her life starting from puberty fending off unwelcome advances from much older men. It's very damaging to the psyche of young girls that just when you are starting to become a woman, your experience of femininity is tainted by people who see you as nothing but an object to be used.
My sister has a 9-month-old baby girl and it's crucial for her to prepare her daughter as well as she can to defend herself against such things. Girls are socialized to be nice and obedient towards adults, so it's very tough to find the strength to repel these advances.
Not that it ends when one grows up. How often does one have to deal with older men trying to ogle and paw you at work?
It's good that you are thinking about these issues in an honest and productive way. There should be a widespread condemnation of men who do such things. Instead, it's often considered prestigious for a 5-year-old to have an 18 year-old girlfriend.
Great post!
That's the thing Geo...I don't view YOU as a pervert, you have been more than clear on the issues and I honestly believe which "side" you stand on...I'm not the thought police, and on occasion I feel as though that is what I'm trying to do, and that is why I'm ashamed...because it's very selfish to demand that people don't have bad thoughts...It stems from a fear that the men in my life if presented with a more attractive option, even if in their head, would breed a contempt in our relationship and my fear of being not good enough would come to life, and in some instances those things did come true (such as issues that my hubby and I had..we are much healthier now, but the fear is inescapable...as of this point in my life anyway) and unfortunately it seems as though that fear will only become more realistic in the future when my husband and I am older...I will be less desirable because of my age, he will be more valuable (socially).
K- ..that is why I'm ashamed...because it's very selfish to demand that people don't have bad thoughts..
G - It is completely - normal to have feelings -related to what others say. It is healthy to struggle with those feelings. What you do with them in relation to "the other" is what's important. There is a huge difference between you telling me that something I say makes you feel creepy and you telling me that I'm "a pervert" or "a rapist" based upon Your Feeling (particularly in the moment).
K - .It stems from a fear that the men in my life if presented with a more attractive option, even if in their head, would breed a contempt in our relationship
G - You should listen to your fear and not dismiss it, while also not necessarily deciding it is "fully rational".
K. - and my fear of being not good enough would come to life, and in some instances those things did come true (such as issues that my hubby and I had..we are much healthier now, but the fear is inescapable...as of this point in my life anyway)
G - again - your fears are real and based upon your life experiences with your hubby
K - unfortunately it seems as though that fear will only become more realistic in the future when my husband and I am older...I will be less desirable because of my age, he will be more valuable (socially).
G - my partner has had nearly every past serious relationship end due to lies and infidelity of her partner (both female and male). She naturally fears I will do the same. You should listen to your fears and do your best in your life. You can't control What your partner may do in the future. To what degree you "prepare" for him leaving you (potentially) and to what degree you say to yourself: "he will be better/different" is something only you can decide, but you're not "crazy" or "irrational" - but real. Thanks for sharing!
"...I will be less desirable because of my age"
-Not true! This is something that TV shows and glossy magazines want us to believe. However, it is a lot easier for a mature woman to attract genuine admirers than for a mature man.
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